Re: draft-arkko-ipv6-transition-guidelines WGLC

[Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>]

>>> IMHO, traditional dual-stack is not viable for transition.  There are
>>> not incentives for me to dual stack at home, work, or while mobile.
>> That's interesting, given the number of networks that have followed
>> that route. I wonder what other operators would say about that?
> As in my note to Randy, i am just talking about end-nodes and access
> network, and really only mobile.  Not many end-nodes and access
> network are dual-stack.

the core is moving more and more to dual-stack.  aside from issues as
are being discussed (overuse of link local for routing protocols, lack
of management support in v6, blah blah blah), it is not really hard.
much of the cost is in the back office.  that is, until we get big v6
traffic and find many of the routers move v6 on the slow path.  the 6502
makes such a great forwarding engine.

it is not clear to me that we can expect the edge to be dual-stack.  big
printers can get software upgrades to handle v6.  small v4-only printers
have low amortization value.  the nt, win95, winxp, ... folk can get
macs.  i admit to being a bit crass here:).  but really, when you build
a new large lan in 2003, do you really want to make it rfc 1918?

i suspect that, five years out, the edge will be bi-modal, a lot of
v4-only/1918 crap and some v6/nat64.  and then a bunch of disgusting
kludge to deal with cgns and other devil spawn.

> Comcast is an outstanding example of going dual-stack.

thank you john b!

> Nearly everyone else in the access space is not, hence 6RD.

from 10,000m, what is 6rd but a teredo/6to4 that colludes with the
provider who won't do real v6?  it's a cute hack, but a hack.  we have
spent 15 years on hacks to punch ipv6 through the recalcitrant.  now we
have moved to punching it through the cgn and other foot draggers.  i
find it hard to become enthused.

i think we should stop being reactive and get on the front of the
surfboard, focus on making ipv6 easy and attractive to deploy both on
the backbone and in the edge.  i look forward to the day when i can tell
an enterprise or backbone operator that they can enable ipv6 and not
have to retrain their noc (or it department), make minimal change to
their back end, make minimal change to management, make minimal change
to security policy and mechanisms, ...  that task is hard enough.

randy