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RE: draft-santitoro-rap-policy-errorcodes-01.txt



Title: RE: draft-santitoro-rap-policy-errorcodes-01.txt
OK. I agree that there are problems that arise when the full path is not examined beofre returning a DSCP with a PathErr. I think that, at least in certain applications, the value of the mechanisms in the draft justifies work to investigate and address the problems. For example - while selecting the 'right' DSCP for a service might be difficult, returning a less than best-effort DSCP coul;d be easier. Certainly, retunring a DO_NOT_SEND can be doen without understanding the impact on downstream subnetworks.
 
Y
-----Original Message-----
From: Weiss, Walter [mailto:wweiss@ellacoya.com]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 8:47 AM
To: Yoram Bernet
Cc: rap
Subject: RE: draft-santitoro-rap-policy-errorcodes-01.txt

Yoram,
 
In essence, I am both agreeing and disagreeing. I am agreeing that "it is all the more important to tie domains together through some higher layer abstraction - such as signaling for a certain type of service, across all intervening domains." I am disagreeing with the premise that a PathErr with an alternate DSCP achieves the aforementioned objective, particularly when considering the interdomain issues I raised previously.
 
regards,
 
-Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: Yoram Bernet [mailto:yoramb@microsoft.com]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 11:30 AM
To: Weiss, Walter; 'Mark Gibson'
Cc: rap
Subject: RE: draft-santitoro-rap-policy-errorcodes-01.txt

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Weiss, Walter [mailto:wweiss@ellacoya.com]
Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 7:44 AM
To: 'Mark Gibson'
Cc: rap
Subject: RE: draft-santitoro-rap-policy-errorcodes-01.txt

Mark,
 
I would actually expect RSVP to consume more time than SIP. There are two factors to consider. First RSVP is a hop by hop protocol. While in practice most hops would have RSVP disabled, I would still expect 2 hops best case (at the LAN/WAN transition points) and 2 hops per DS domain (once at ingress and once at egress) worst case. Further, in the new model for RSVP, the protocol is used more as a policy proxy than to configure switches. As such, when a RSVP message is received, it is likely to be redirected to a PDP via COPS before propogating the message. The redirection and processing are also likely to add significantly to the delay.
[Yoram Bernet] Just a minute -  policies are cached. In the steady state, RSVP messages are not redirected to PDPs *before propagating the message*!
 
My main reason for suggesting this alternative is because there is no implicit binding between a DSCP and a service level. Let me be a little clearer. There is no well defined DSCP for voice, let alone a less optimal DSCP. Further, DSCPs are configured and have unique QoS semantics on a per domain basis. It is highly likely that IPT traffic will pass through at least three domains. As such any of them can not only demote a service, but potentially promote a service as well. Irrespective of the course taken, there are two things to be avoided. One is the exclusive reliance on DSCP mappings. If the Path is rejected on the ingress, but a specific alternate DSCP is offered, there is an inherent and flawed assumption that the DSCP will mapped properly across DS domains resulting in non-deterministic behaviour. Second, we should avoid inconsistencies in the expectations of the sender and the receiver. With a reservation in place (irrespective of the service level), both the sender and receiver understand the bounds the behaviour. Further, with a non-optimal reservation, the opportunity exists to only use the less optimal DSCP in those portions of the network where contention prevents the use of the optimal DSCP. In other words, the optimal DSCP in some portions of the network can improve overall service characteristics.
[Yoram Bernet]  Are you saying that DSCPs cannot reliably invoke services? What is the "Serv" part in DiffServ then? With the correct admission control and the correct provisioning and traffic conditioning, DSCPs can invoke specific services. The network understands how it is provisioned and just what services DSCPs can offer through it. That's why the network must inform the user, which DSCP should be used for a particular service. I agree with you that interdomain issues are important and that a DSCP in one domain may mean something different than a DSCP in another domain, but - that is why it is all the more important to tie domains together through some higher layer abstraction - such as signaling for a certain type of service, across all intervening domains. Are you rejecting RFC2996-2998? Or do you agree witht he direction in those?