RE: Two questions on draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf

[Igor Bryskin <i_bryskin@yahoo.com>]

Thanks, that is exactly what I expected to hear.

Igor

"BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS" <dbrungard@att.com> wrote:

Hi Igor,

To save Dimitri time on scanning G8080, I can quickly answer your 2nd question (if I determine it correctly as it is a long thread), you ask:
"In 6. you write:
A RA may contain smaller RAs inter-connected by links. The limit of the subdivision results in a RA that contains two sub-networks interconnected by a single link.

In G.8080 I read:
.... A routing area is defined by a set of subnetworks, the SNPP links that interconnect them, and the SNPPs representing the ends of the SNPP links exiting that routing area. A routing area may contain smaller routing areas interconnected by SNPP links. The limit of subdivision results in a routing area that contains one subnetwork.
Why is the discrepancy?"

And you continued to say in your follow up mail:
"IB>> Well, it changes one of the fundamental definitions of G.8080, and I
am asking why is that in the draft which is supposed to define ways to
support G.8080"

CCAMP has already agreed to update this definition to the new definition in the next version of the draft. CCAMP was informed via Q14/15's Liaison in November 2006 that the definition was changed. The draft used the definition of G.8080 (2001 and 2003). The definition was updated by an amendment in 2005 to the new definition which you reference. We did not receive any further details except to say that it was updated.

Deborah


-----Original Message-----
From: Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be [mailto:Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be]
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:56 AM
To: Igor Bryskin
Cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A, ATTLABS; owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Subject: Two questions on draft-ietf-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf

igor

the drafts says

"Note: The Link ID sub-TLV that identifies the other end of the link (i.e.
Router ID of the neighbor for point-to-point links) MUST appear exactly
once per Link TLV. This sub-TLV MUST be processed as defined in [RFC3630].
"

which is exactly what you are saying - when i say "it identifies the
remote RC not the remote data plane "node" in case the remote RC is
associate to n nodes" read "it is set to the router_id that identifies the
remote RC..."
in brief, we keep the semantic and add a discriminator (that does not
apply in case of colocated 1:1 LSR) - this closes the first point -

concerning the second point, since there is a possibility to have multiple
associations in different LSAs i don't where the
problem is ?

thanks,
-d.





Igor Bryskin
Sent by: owner-ccamp@ops.ietf.org
09/03/2007 16:05

To: Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL@ALCATEL
cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"

Subject: Re: Two questions on
draft-dimitri-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf draft


Dimitri,

> Is the LinkID is the same as Remote TE Router ID?

no

> LinkID unambiguosly identifies remote data plane node,

no, it identifies the remote RC not the remote data plane "node" in case
the remote RC is associate to n "nodes"

IB>> No, I disagree. You see that's why it's so important to quote the
RFCs/drafts, because people often interpret them differently.

In RFC 3630 we read:
"
2.5.2. Link ID



The Link ID sub-TLV identifies the other end of the link. For

point-to-point links, this is the Router ID of the neighbor.

"

Note that it does not say whether this is the advertising Router ID

(identifying neighbor RC) or TE Router ID (identifying the
neighbor TE node). However, it does say that it "identifies the other end
of the link". Because a link is terminated by TE nodes (and not
advertising routers) I conclude that LinkID identifies the remote TE node.

Furthermore, earlier in RFC 3630 we read:
"
2.4.1. Router Address TLV

The Router Address TLV specifies a stable IP address of the
advertising router that is always reachable if there is any
connectivity to it; this is typically implemented as a "loopback
address". The key attribute is that the address does not become
unusable if an
interface is down. In other protocols, this is known
as the "router ID"

I interpret that this is the same router ID as in the upper quote. It is
advertised in the Router Address TLV, which is the only way today to
advertise TE Router ID. Hence the router ID in the context of this RFC is
the TE Router ID.

The conclusion #1: the TE Link TLV, as it is today, always contains the ID
of the remote TE node.

The conclusion #2: there is a need to advertise several TE Router IDs
supported by the same RC (advertising router), which, I think, should be
proposed in your draft

ps: second question is trivial, mathematical vs networking formulation (no

real difference)

IB>> Well, it changes one of the fundamental definitions of G.8080, and I
am asking why is that in the draft which is supposed to define ways to
support G.8080

Igor

pps: if you want to put guidelines on e-mail responses probably directing
your e-mail to the GEN AREA would be more suitable

hope this helps,
-d.




Igor Bryskin
09/03/2007 00:03

To: Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL@ALCATEL
cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"

Subject: Re: Two questions on
draft-dimitri-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf draft


Dimitri, no, it does not help.

You didn't answer the first question, which is:

Is the LinkID is the same as Remote TE Router ID? If no, what is the
difference? If yes, why do you need the latter? Both your pointers explain

why do you need advertising of the local TE Router ID (advertising router
may cover multiple data plane nodes), However, LinkID unambiguosly
identifies remote data plane node, and the need for the advertising of
Remote TE Router ID is not obvious

BTW, You didn't answer the second question either.

Igor

PS, I have a suggestion for the working group: Let us disallow responding
to the comments/questions by just pointing to RFCs or drafts. In my view
it is quite unfriendly. It is always possible to cut and paste a piece
from the relevant RFC or draft confirming the points the writer is trying
to make.

Dimitri.Papadimitriou@alcatel-lucent.be wrote:
igor


pls use version (or 03
when available to make comments)

in that version you will see in Section 5.2

" Note: The Link ID sub-TLV that identifies the other end of the link
(i.e. Router ID of the neighbor for point-to-point links) MUST
appear exactly once per Link TLV. This sub-TLV MUST be processed as
defined in [RFC3630]. "

now why this sub-TLV 17, well for the reason explained at the beginning of


par.5.2
but also in RFC 4652 Section 5.7

hope this helps,
-d.




Igor Bryskin
08/03/2007 22:11

To: Dimitri PAPADIMITRIOU/BE/ALCATEL@ALCATEL
cc: ccamp@ops.ietf.org, "Brungard, Deborah A, ALABS"

Subject: Two questions on
draft-dimitri-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf draft


Dimitri,
I have a couple questions wrt the
draft-dimitri-ccamp-gmpls-ason-routing-ospf draft.
In 5.2 a TE Link sub-TLV is introduced for the purpose of advertising
local and remote TE Router ID:

0 1 2 3
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| 17 | Length |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Local TE Router Identifier |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Remote TE Router Identifier |
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Although I do understand why there is a need for advertising the Local TE
Router ID, I donââ'¬â"¢t understand why the Remote Te Router ID?
Isnââ'¬â"¢t
this is
the same
information
that is carried in the Link ID sub-TLV?
In 6. you write:

ââ'¬Å"A RA may contain smaller RAs inter-connected by links.
The limit of the subdivision results in
a RA that contains two sub-networks interconnected by a single
link.ââ'¬Â?

In G.8080 I read:
ââ'¬Å".... A routing area is defined by a set of subnetworks, the SNPP
links

that interconnect them, and the SNPPs representing the ends of the SNPP
links exiting that routing area. A routing area may contain smaller
routing areas interconnected by SNPP links. The limit of subdivision
results in a routing area that contains ]one subnetwork.ââ'¬Â?

Why is the discrepancy?

Thanks,
Igor


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