Re: [idn] Re: draft-ietf-idn-vidn-00.txt

["FDU - Sung Jae Shim" <sshim@mailbox.fdu.edu>]

James,

I am on the mailing list, as I receive emails from
"idn@ops.ietf.org. Maybe the confusion is because I am using two email
accounts. The one on the mailing list is "sshim@mailbox.fdu.edu". Thanks.

Sung


----- Original Message -----
From: James Seng/Personal <James@Seng.cc>
To: <idn@ops.ietf.org>
Cc: <shimsungjae@dualname.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2000 12:22 PM
Subject: [idn] Re: draft-ietf-idn-vidn-00.txt


> Dear Shim,
>
> If you are not on the mailing list, you probably should join the list
> especially being an author of one of the draft.
>
> -James Seng
>
> > From: "DualName - ShimSungJae" <shimsungjae@dualname.com>
> > To: <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>
> > Cc: <idn@ops.ietf.org>
> > Subject: Re: draft-ietf-idn-vidn-00.txt
> > Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2000 10:18:00 -0500
> >
> > Valdis,
> >
> > Thank you for your comments on the document. Please see below for my
> > responses to your comments.
> >
> > Sung
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu>
> > To: <shimsungjae@dualname.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:35 AM
> > Subject: draft-ietf-idn-vidn-00.txt
> >
> > Note that there is a city in China, which used to be known in the US as
> > Peking, that is now known as Beijing.  This renders suspect the
following:
> >
> >    inverse of transcription of phonemes into characters. Second, each
> >    individual phoneme of the local language is matched with an
> >    equivalent phoneme of English that has the same or most proximate
> >    sound. Third, each phoneme of English is transcribed into the
> >
> > This could cause a problem if the underlying domain name has to change
due
> > to a change in the "preferred" transliteration rules, which has been
known
> > to happen.
> >
> > Sung: A city in China, which used to be known in English-speaking
regions as
> > "Peking," is now known as "Beijing." The reason for this may be that
> > English-speaking people began to pronounce the city's name as "peking"
for
> > some reason, probably for their convenience of pronunciation, although
the
> > city's name is pronounced as "beijing" among Chinese-speaking people.
The
> > correct pronunciation of the city's name in Chinese is "beijing" as used
> > today.
> >
> > Sung: Anyway, let's assume that the city's name can be pronounced as
> > "peking," "beijing" and others since the same characters in Chinese can
be
> > transliterated differently into English. Thus, when the city's name is
> > entered in Chinese, VIDN method converts it into several possible
> > corresponding domain names in English, including "peking," "beijing" and
> > others, as long as the phonemes of the characters of the resulting
domain
> > names in English have the same or proximate sounds as the phonemes
> > represented by the input characters in Chinese. This is
> > one-to-many mapping of VIDN. Further, only one of these, for instance
> > "beijing", can be matched with the city's name in Chinese, with the
coding
> > scheme designed for one-to-one matching (see the document for details),
and
> > the others including "peking" can be listed as alternatives.
> >
> > Sung: For the conversion from a local language into English, VIDN does
not
> > rely on a certain set of "preferred" transliteration rules which may
change
> > over time, but it uses a much more fundamental approach. VIDN uses the
> > phonemes of the respective two languages (a local language and English)
as a
> > medium of the transliteration, and so, there is no need to change the
> > underlying domain names in English. In fact, most transliteration rules
are
> > based upon the systems of sounds of the respective languages, and the
units
> > of such systems are phonemes. Therefore, VIDN can incorporate most, if
not
> > all, possible transliteration rules, including all those "preferred,"
> > customary, old, or new ones.
> >
> > Also, I am told that Mandarin Chinese and other Chinese dialects differ
on
> > the pronunciation of ideograms, although they agree on the meaning of
the
> > glyph.  As a result, it's quite possible that depending which
pronunciation
> > is used, several domain names would be required, unless (for instance)
the
> > Mandarin variant was required.
> >
> > Sung: Mandarin Chinese and other Chinese dialects differ on
> > the pronunciation of ideograms, although they agree on the meaning of
the
> > glyph. In this case, VIDN may provide several conversion modules, with
each
> > being used for conversion of each Chinese dialect into English. Please
note
> > that VIDN does NOT actually create and require domain names registered
in
> > local languages, but it allows using virtual domain names in local
languages
> > as the user wishes. Again, there is no need to change the underlying
domain
> > names in English in this case.
> >
> > Section 4.4 Testing results:
> >
> >    that a user can choose one. The testing results of a sample of
> >    randomly selected domain names used in Korea show that the program
> >    can cover more than ninety percent of the sample. The results
> >    indicate that more than ninety percent of web sites in Korea can be
> >    accessed using virtual domain names in Korean without creating
> >    additional domain names in Korean. The remaining ten percent of
> >
> > A careful re-reading of this seems to indicate that what this *really*
means
> > is that "90% of the time, our software used the same mapping for Korean
> > words that people had *already* used to force their domain name into the
> > DNS".  There is no indication that the results are extensible to
languages
> > other than Korean.  For instance, it shows no indication of being able
to
> > encode ISO8859-X national variants for X<>1 without problems (for
instance,
> > how do you handle collisions between 8859-1 German u-umlaut and 8859-4
> > Latvian u-bar, which are different characters, but are roughly the same
from
> > an English viewpoint - other examples probably exist as well).  In
general,
> > the scheme fails miserably if the phoneme is one that is not even
> > approximated
> > in English (for instance, the various 'click' sounds used in many
African
> > tribal languages).
> >
> > Sung: Phonemes are very universal, being applicable to any language. In
the
> > example cited above, the collision between 8859-1 German u-umlaut and
8859-4
> > Latvian u-bar may occur when the characters representing the phonemes of
> > 8859-1 German u-umlaut and 8859-4 Latvian u-bar are actually used and
> > registered as internationalized domain names. VIDN do NOT register any
> > internationalized domain name, BUT it allows using internationalized
domain
> > names virtually. Thus, both 8859-1 German u-umlaut and 8859-4 Latvian
u-bar
> > will result in the same character(s) in English, probably "u" or "eu",
since
> > the sounds of the phonemes represented by the two characters are the
same.
> >
> > Sung: The transliteration between Korean and English is very wild as you
may
> > know. The testing results of Korean-English conversion suggest that VIDN
can
> > be applicable to other languages, too. Of course, there may be some
domain
> > names in English to be changed so that users can use the corresponding
> > virtual domain names in a local language more easily and intuitively.
But
> > compare the number of internationalized domain names that we have to
> > actually create and register when we use special UCS encoding schemes or
> > separate directory services, with the number of domain names in English
that
> > we need to add to follow the transliteration principles of VIDN. Going
back
> > the examples above, the user can still access the sites using "peking"
and
> > "beijing" in English, while the sites are also accessible using virtual
> > domain names in Chinese, although they are not actually created and
> > registered in Chinese.
> >
> > --
> >     Valdis Kletnieks
> >     Operating Systems Analyst
> >     Virginia Tech
> >
> >
> >
>
>